Discuss: DROID (MILESTONE, Tao, Sholes)
DROID (MILESTONE, Tao, Sholes) discussions
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by SteveoSaurusRex - Latest reply in
- More Home Screens!
by boneil
32 replies / Originally posted by SteveoSaurusRex / Latest reply from SteveoSaurusRex / Topic is open
I don't know about you guys, but when I saw this thing listed as having a 550MHz processor, it failed in my eyes. It was bad enough that this thing has a fugly keyboard, but I couldn't wrap my mind around getting a device w/ a processor so similar to the previous generation of android phones (528MHz) while 1GHz android phones are at the gates w/ the Acer Liquid, the Sony X3, and the HTC Dragon.
Someone talk me down. I currently have a brutally slow, touch screen phone and I would just kick myself if I spent another 2 years and $200 (?) to live with a similar problem (once the phone was loaded w/ apps). Some people suggested that the processor was underclocked. How does that work if its supposed to be running the same processor that the Pre and the iPhone are running and those are clocked at 600MHz? I know all these phones are doomed to slow downs, but I would like to stave this off for as long as possible.
Someone talk me down. I currently have a brutally slow, touch screen phone and I would just kick myself if I spent another 2 years and $200 (?) to live with a similar problem (once the phone was loaded w/ apps). Some people suggested that the processor was underclocked. How does that work if its supposed to be running the same processor that the Pre and the iPhone are running and those are clocked at 600MHz? I know all these phones are doomed to slow downs, but I would like to stave this off for as long as possible.
Posted 3 months ago
Thanks Obi, I will check it out.
Posted 3 months ago
I have to ask though. So you're saying that we can no longer look at a phones's specs and say "wow, that thing is going to fly"? If so, why are reviewers still panting over clock speeds every time a new 1GHz phone is announced.
As for the power-speed compromise, qualcomm, at least, would beg to differ. http://www.qctconnect.com/products/snapdragon.html
They're swearing up and down that their chip is optimized for low power consumption. Now clearly this is qualcomm talking, but battery capacities have been climbing to meet these challenges.
The only 1GHz phone that I know of (Toshiba's) got poor reviews due to battery life issues. But that phone only had a 1000 mAh battery w/ a massive display. The samsung galaxy lite is rocking a 1500 mAh battery w/ a 800MHz processor, 3.2 inch AMOLED display (low power). If you ask me, Toshiba's phone deserved to suck.
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Samsung-Galaxy-Lite-I570
0-phone-p_4157.html
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there need not be a compromise in battery life.
As for the power-speed compromise, qualcomm, at least, would beg to differ. http://www.qctconnect.com/products/snapdragon.html
They're swearing up and down that their chip is optimized for low power consumption. Now clearly this is qualcomm talking, but battery capacities have been climbing to meet these challenges.
The only 1GHz phone that I know of (Toshiba's) got poor reviews due to battery life issues. But that phone only had a 1000 mAh battery w/ a massive display. The samsung galaxy lite is rocking a 1500 mAh battery w/ a 800MHz processor, 3.2 inch AMOLED display (low power). If you ask me, Toshiba's phone deserved to suck.
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Samsung-Galaxy-Lite-I570
0-phone-p_4157.html
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there need not be a compromise in battery life.
Posted 3 months ago
I did a little research and it turns out that the Snapdragon is a beast. Very fast chip, but very high power consumption. Snapdragon can do 2100 DMIPS @ 1GHz, using 500mW of power. That means that anything that pegs the processor (like a game) will kill a 1200mAh battery like the one in the HTC Touch HD2 in a little over 2 hours. Keep in mind that power figure doesn't include power for the 3G transceiver or the screen.
By comparison, the iPhone 3GSs CPU can do about 1200 DMIPS @ 600 MHz using ~350mW.
Seems like the only way to get decent battery life out of one of these is with a bigger battery, maybe even a bigger phone to hold it.
Snapdragon power consumption: http://www.edn.com/info/CA6631784.html?industryid=48661
By comparison, the iPhone 3GSs CPU can do about 1200 DMIPS @ 600 MHz using ~350mW.
Seems like the only way to get decent battery life out of one of these is with a bigger battery, maybe even a bigger phone to hold it.
Snapdragon power consumption: http://www.edn.com/info/CA6631784.html?industryid=48661
Posted 3 months ago
Judging from the review at BGR, the phone is the fastest Android ever. I know that previous Android phones have been rather slow, but the reviewer seems genuinely impressed when stacked upon other phones.
In the word of keyboards, well, that's just preference, so there's no way to talk you down from that. There's the Droid Eris coming out from HTC, though, so you may want to stack that up with this one.
In the word of keyboards, well, that's just preference, so there's no way to talk you down from that. There's the Droid Eris coming out from HTC, though, so you may want to stack that up with this one.
Posted 3 months ago
As i understand it, the Eris may be far less impressive than the moto Droid, not including Sense UI. Rumors has it that the phone is going straight to store shelves, w/ no announcement event. If so, wouldnt that be a LITTLE BIT like a movie going straight to DVD? In this case, Verizon wants to sell the phone as an alternative, but theyre trying to hype their fugly flagship phone above all others. Other rumors suggest (tho I don't yet understand why) that this phone is Hero version 3. If so, I can see why this phone would not receive yet another 15 minutes of fame.
Straight to Shelves? http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/23/verizons-droid-is-a-s
eries-not-just-a-phone-droid-eris-coming/
Hero on Verizon: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/06/second-verizon-androi
d-phone-to-be-the-htc-hero-motorola-sholes?icid=sphere_b
logsmith_inpage_engadget
Straight to Shelves? http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/23/verizons-droid-is-a-s
eries-not-just-a-phone-droid-eris-coming/
Hero on Verizon: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/06/second-verizon-androi
d-phone-to-be-the-htc-hero-motorola-sholes?icid=sphere_b
logsmith_inpage_engadget
Posted 3 months ago
I was a little disappointed with the look of the keyboard as well. The keys don't look raised and it doesn't look like there's much separating them. I'd have to physically try to type on it to see how I like it.
I got rid of the iPhone so I could go for a QWERTY keyboard, but if the keyboard's going to feel flat, I might as well be typing on a screen. If they skimped on the keyboard because they were trying to make the phone flatter, like BGR states, I may have to pass on the Droid.
I got rid of the iPhone so I could go for a QWERTY keyboard, but if the keyboard's going to feel flat, I might as well be typing on a screen. If they skimped on the keyboard because they were trying to make the phone flatter, like BGR states, I may have to pass on the Droid.
Posted 3 months ago
I'm not at all concerned. If you read the BGR review they said after a short time they got used to the keyboard.
What we have is a slim phone which everyone wants, with a slide out keyboard - another thing we want and the fastest android phone out there.
Sure it does look rather ugly but my Blackberry isn't exactly pretty.
What we have is a slim phone which everyone wants, with a slide out keyboard - another thing we want and the fastest android phone out there.
Sure it does look rather ugly but my Blackberry isn't exactly pretty.
Posted 3 months ago
I'm not prepared to ditch this phone soley due to its keyboard, but it doesnt help if you have other problems w. the phone. 3 strikes is 3 strikes.
Posted 3 months ago
I agree ...this phone is the same size as the iPhone and yet they've figured a way to get a full QWERTY slide out keyboard in there.
That of course had to come at the compromise of making the keys flat. I personally feel you shouldn't judge a keyboard till you've used it. I don't really care how the keyboard looks...I just want to know does it work.
That of course had to come at the compromise of making the keys flat. I personally feel you shouldn't judge a keyboard till you've used it. I don't really care how the keyboard looks...I just want to know does it work.
Posted 3 months ago
It seems to me that the one critical factor was overlooked that this phone also has a dedicated GPU and not one that is shared with the CPU. Even though it is clocked 50 points below the 3GS and Pre it also has a 430mhz GPU which means all graphics and video is done on that while the main CPU handles only applications and other functions. This actually makes this phone comparable IMO to the snapdragon chipsets because they as far as I know don't have a dedicated GPU.
Posted 3 months ago
Hey, Deinfinityx, anyone ever told you that you're F-ing brilliant? I totally forgot about that. Something I heard a million years ago, it seems. However, I also heard a another tech wiz say that you can't simply add CPUs & GPUs to get any kind of a comparable figure, but yeah, it would make sense for this phone to run better than your average 600MHz phone. But really, I know next to nothing about chipsets.
Ok, thanx deinfinityx, I may not write this phone off just yet :)
Ok, thanx deinfinityx, I may not write this phone off just yet :)
Posted 3 months ago
I know you can't add up the CPU and GPU to get a number but the combo will preform better then anything else out their. And if you look at the speeds, it will get close to the 3GS speeds but slower because it multitasks, then when you add the GPU everything that it handles will be sped up since its running on a dedicated chip instead of the main CPU.
The other thing to look at is its Android. The CPU is surely underclocked but as soon as the phone gets rooted you will be able turn that up to the factory standard which is probably around 700 or 800 I am not sure what it is.
The other thing to look at is its Android. The CPU is surely underclocked but as soon as the phone gets rooted you will be able turn that up to the factory standard which is probably around 700 or 800 I am not sure what it is.
Posted 3 months ago
I think a big part of the speed perception with these phones is the UI. WIth most of that work offloaded to the GPU and the CPU handling most of the background app work, I think the speed will seem the same as the 3GS. I noticed a difference in speed switching from running the Hero theme with Open Home back to the the regular home screen. Since the UI is snappier, the phone seems faster, and I just have a myTouch.
Posted 3 months ago
Basically the same idea as the iPhone OS. A GPU accelerated UI should go a long way to speeding up Android.
BTW Deinfinityx, where did you read this business about a dedicated GPU? That makes no sense on a SOC designed for a smartphone.
BTW Deinfinityx, where did you read this business about a dedicated GPU? That makes no sense on a SOC designed for a smartphone.
Posted 3 months ago
@Obi
use: "ctrl + f", then type in "gpu" its actually kinda easy to miss.
http://phonedog.com/cell-phone-research/blog/leaked-spec
s-verizon-android-phone-to-pwn-everything-on-december-1.
aspx
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/10/23/motorola-droid
-preview/
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Motorola-Sholes-Specs-an
d-speculations-article-a_6965.html
&
http://androidandme.com/2009/08/news/motorola-sholes-for
-verizon-new-predictions-and-cpu-specs/
use: "ctrl + f", then type in "gpu" its actually kinda easy to miss.
http://phonedog.com/cell-phone-research/blog/leaked-spec
s-verizon-android-phone-to-pwn-everything-on-december-1.
aspx
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/10/23/motorola-droid
-preview/
http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Motorola-Sholes-Specs-an
d-speculations-article-a_6965.html
&
http://androidandme.com/2009/08/news/motorola-sholes-for
-verizon-new-predictions-and-cpu-specs/
Posted 3 months ago
Man you definitely should not let the processor speed get you down. The thing is under clocked it is capable of running at 600mhz and one thing you must remember is depending on what type of processor you have it may determine which is better. For instance the snapdragon windows mobile device the toshiba tg01 performs worse than some devices with 800 mhz or 600mhz processors. Why? The type of processor it is. Look at it like this. A digital camera can have the same mp as another but may be better based on other things. That's how the processors work. And remember this thing has a dedicated graphics chip in it so it will only be dedicated to the software. One other thing to bring up is the keyboard. Any physical keyboard is better than none and if you don't wanna use it the boy genius clarified in his article that their is a software keyboard that works in both portrait and landscape modes. This device is going to smoke the competition and I odon't think anyone should miss out on it.
Posted 3 months ago
Hey Steve, I'm aware that the OMAP3430 has an on-die GPU. Deinfinityx mentioned a dedicated chip and seemed to indicate that it was faster overall than the iPhone. The 3GS has a faster version of the SGX (SGX535 vs the OMAP3430's SGX530) and a slightly faster CPU. On the whole, between the CPU and GPU, the iPhone has the faster hardware.
That said, Android seems like it's a lighter OS than OS X mobile, so the Droid should be just as responsive. Since Apple's starting to annoy me I suspect my next phone will be a Cortex powered Android or whatever the successor to the Nokia N900 ends up being. I don't like resistive screens so this version of the N900 is a no go.
That said, Android seems like it's a lighter OS than OS X mobile, so the Droid should be just as responsive. Since Apple's starting to annoy me I suspect my next phone will be a Cortex powered Android or whatever the successor to the Nokia N900 ends up being. I don't like resistive screens so this version of the N900 is a no go.
Posted 3 months ago
I was just commenting on speculation, all mobile cpu's have gpu's built in but the rumors are that it will contain a PowerVR SGX 530 GPU, so i don't know if it is on the CPU or if it truley is seperate.
And after some research if the rumor is correct then it is a seperate GPU chip and not part of the CPU.
And after some research if the rumor is correct then it is a seperate GPU chip and not part of the CPU.
Posted 3 months ago
Oh great. I guess just don't know my stuff. So it doesn't have a dedicated GPU.... hmmm.... is there anywhere on this site where we can talk about the HTC Dragon?
lol. i'm such a flake.
lol. i'm such a flake.
Posted 3 months ago
"And after some research if the rumor is correct then it is a seperate GPU chip and not part of the CPU"
Do you have a link? This makes no sense. The OMAP3430 is a SOC (system on a chip) that's basically all the components of a motherboard and an integrated GPU on a single chip. Why add a second GPU on a second chip instead of specifying a different SOC design? The whole purpose of the SOC is integration (reduced component costs) and reduced power usage. A dedicated GPU goes against the whole design philosophy.
And Steve, don't discount the Droid yet. Pretty much all smartphone processors have integrated GPUs these days and the OMAP3 series is one of the most powerful available. Only the Nvidia Tegra GPUs are faster, but they're paired with slower CPUs. The Dragon seems like a powerhouse, but I'm more interested in the 4.1" screen on that model.
Do you have a link? This makes no sense. The OMAP3430 is a SOC (system on a chip) that's basically all the components of a motherboard and an integrated GPU on a single chip. Why add a second GPU on a second chip instead of specifying a different SOC design? The whole purpose of the SOC is integration (reduced component costs) and reduced power usage. A dedicated GPU goes against the whole design philosophy.
And Steve, don't discount the Droid yet. Pretty much all smartphone processors have integrated GPUs these days and the OMAP3 series is one of the most powerful available. Only the Nvidia Tegra GPUs are faster, but they're paired with slower CPUs. The Dragon seems like a powerhouse, but I'm more interested in the 4.1" screen on that model.
Posted 3 months ago
Yeah, I'm afraid this one is going down to the wire. I'm just going to have to wait to hear where the HTC Dragon is going to land (or any other high end Android Device). Moto Droid just wasn't "love" at first sight and I cant afford to buy phone b/c I'm too impatient to wait for one I'm going to be happy w/ for more than a year.... Man, I've been wanting an Android phone since BEFORE the G1 was announced. Before, it was contracts that got in the way, now its prudence.
If by december there is no word of what network the Dragon is going to, I'll get the Droid.
If by december there is no word of what network the Dragon is going to, I'll get the Droid.
Posted 3 months ago
The links are the ones SteveoSaurusRex posted, the phone dog one has it and the android and me ones has it and when you google the GPU they say it takes you to a site about dedicated phone gpu's.
Posted 3 months ago
I checked all of those sites and they only mention the SGX 530 which is an integrated GPU as I mentioned above. It's built into the same die as the Cortex A8 CPU core as one single piece of silicon with a shared memory bus. Do you have a direct link to anything on this dedicated GPU? Telling me to google a GPU that I've already discussed doesn't really help clear up the confusion. People are making and deferring purchasing decisions based in part on specs & these rumours, so misinformation helps no-one.
For the record, the Qualcomm MSM7201A in the G1, Hero, & Magic also has an integrated GPU. It's just a weak one (~4M polygons/second). The real innovation of the OMAP isn't the GPU, it's that the GPU is worth the silicon it's made of.
For the record, the Qualcomm MSM7201A in the G1, Hero, & Magic also has an integrated GPU. It's just a weak one (~4M polygons/second). The real innovation of the OMAP isn't the GPU, it's that the GPU is worth the silicon it's made of.
Posted 3 months ago
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By Obi
Joined: Jul 1, 2009
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How the OMAP3 should compare to the Qualcomm Snapdragon @ 1GHz is anyone's guess. My suspicion is that the Snapdragon would be faster, but at the expense of battery life. Given that the Droid apparently gets quite good battery life and is fast, I think it may be a decent trade off. We'll have to wait to see them side by side to know for sure, but you won't be making a mistake in getting a phone with either Cortex A8 design.
If you're interested in learning more about the differences between the processor families check out the Anandtech 3GS overview article here: http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3595&p=2
That article is somewhat technical, but it's a pretty easy read if you are tech minded and should answer your questions and concerns about the processor in the Droid.
Posted 3 months ago