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by JayV78

Topic: Is everyone really this shortsighted?

30 replies / Originally posted by Josereyes / Latest reply from sinX / Topic is open

By Josereyes

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First I will lay out my gripes about this thing. For starters, a lot of the interface elements seem copied/pasted from the iPhone, I really hoped at least it'd have some transparency elements in the menuing system that at least mirrored that of the OS X dock, also the lack of at least selective multi-tasking kills me because I can't have for example Pandora running and reading a recipe while in the kitchen.

But none of that really matters right now. This is the first iteration of the next generation of computing. Imagine for one second that all computer manufacturers stopped production as if they all just evaporated. So then all of a sudden somebody would say, "Jesh, we still have crazy demand for computing we better get going to satisfy this market" however at that time somebody would likely stand up and speak up and say "Wait a second, right now we know how to make a computing device that uses interface elements like touchscreen for computing, why should we continue to use technology invented in 1965 to interact with our GUI?" The keyboard dates back to 1870, the Mouse - 1965, they were remedies to solve a need at the time. There's no reason to continue on this path, now I'm not saying we should switch overnight but let's give this a shot right now.

Think a year or two from now, the hardware and battery upgrades will take place and developers will have already have had a year under their belt with this SDK. Think about Photoshop as you know it today, then erase its current existance from your memory, and imagine Adobe redesigning Photoshop from the ground up to work with a touchscreen interface. Now you'll likely say "but my keyboard and mouse work just fine", and they do, but Adobe has had to develop and limit software so that it works with those input devices, there have been limitations placed because of it, you have to admit - it's less natural for you to scroll a bar up and down or left and right to zoom or move than it is for your fingers to actually do your bidding of moving an image sideways or pinching and zooming. And it doesn't stop there, the possibilities of new interactions are endless, especially with more mature SDKs.

I for one, will most definitely purchase this device, for one I've been longing for a device to use around the house that's larger than an iPhone and also I'm interested in it's future, the sample potentials provided with iWork and such are a perfect example of this device's upside.

To me the iPad is a flawed first generation brand new way of computing but that's OK right now. Our feedback to Apple shouldn't be "I don't need this" or "This is stupid", it should be "Ok, we see where you're going, we like this stuff but not all of it - here's how to make the bad part of it better."

Posted 1 month ago

By deinfinityx

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I see where your going with this and I do agree, we are going to a more touch based future but I do not see Mobile OSX taking us there, its not a full OS that can run full applications. Right now Windows 7 is pushing that front, with their tablets that are coming out this year and if anything thing is going to change computers it will be windows.

I see this helping define tablets and possibly making them popular like the iphone did but I just see the full version of windows 7 pushing developers into making touch freindly apps, and quite honestly they are going to run a whole lot better and more fluid under a full OS instead of a mobile one.

Regardless this was a mild change toward the future and we will have to see what the rest of the year holds for Apple but personally I don't think this will do much other then drive down prices of the PC tablets below $500.

Posted 1 month ago

By Josereyes

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It's a fair point, but in general, I don't think I agree. Mostly because Mobile OSX is just OSX stripped down. The underlying core that can drive forward applications, however heavy duty they may be, is still there. I think with a more mature SDK we could be there in a year or two. Just looking at what Apple did with iWork is a perfect example of the possibilities, and that's just Apple (who isn't that great at software design), imagine when you give it to hands of more eager and talented devs.

Posted 1 month ago

By ssstraub

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1. Microsoft already tried touch screens several times and failed pretty badly in each case.
2. The HP Slate was announced to be "under $1,500." At that price, and after this announcement, I wouldn't even be surprised if they scrapped the whole thing and went back to the drawing board.
3. The very reason this can run so fast with such good battery life is *because* it's not a "full OS" as you say. It was designed from the very beginning to be as frugal with power.

Posted 1 month ago

By deinfinityx

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Oh I agree one of apple's strong suits is software but my opinion is that with all the PC tablets coming out specifically from HP there is potential that they will sell as much as if not more then the ipad. The thing with that is although they do not have the flair they have the power. There is a lot more developmental push behind the PC market then there is behind the OSX market mobile and full. I know this is going to do ok and its going to help push the future of the industry but in the end not being able to multitask and window is going to but it at a huge disadvantage against windows 7, or even the Android tablets.

Posted 1 month ago

By Dpmt

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1. Nothing like apple taking one on the chin to make a Microsoft Courier look good at any price. Also I whould't count the Zune HD and Windows Mobile as failures (even though WinMo has had it lunch eaten by palm, blackberry and eventually the iPhone. Its still around making the Omnia II and the HD2 go.)

2. Yeah that not the right price point, touchscreen netbooks, if marked correctly will soon be all the rage.

3. Microsoft and its partners are working on this. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Posted 1 month ago

By noahmittman

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Also, it's an INCREDIBLY capable first step. Remember UMPCs?
Apple just released a complete product in the iPad, not some strange shadow of one like the Samsung U1 that needed to be excused for it's price, performance, and the slow speed and ineligance of the Origami Experience UI.

Posted 1 month ago

By DanJ

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I would have to disagree with most of what you are saying.

While i agree with the general sentiment, that the keyboard and mouse are very old concepts, and integrating new technologies such as multitouch into computing will definitely be a good idea for moving technology forward, there are fundamental flaws to the the iPad that go beyond people just needing time to develop for the device.

Most of all is PEN INPUT. While creating a device that utilizes new interactive technologies they left out the one that makes most sense for this class of product. Multitouch input was absolutely the right way to go with the iPhone because of its size, and definitely needs to have a major component in the iPad, but pen input is where you bridge the gap between the cell phone and laptop input.

As a student who also works in an office, I deal with a crap ton of paper and pens and books and notes. My life is filled with binders full of notes and books to go along with those binders. At work I fill out carbon copy forms and pass them on to other departments. I receive drawings that need to be marked up and sent back for review. All these things could be replaced with the iPad if it had pen input as part of its interface.

I think there is a bigger debate to be had about the soft keyboard, vs a physical keyboard, but not having a stylus or physical keyboard makes this device not a serious player in anything more than leisure activity. Without it, there is no way that this class of device can take on any kind of role doing actual work. The iWork demo was decent, but the idea of actually composing full length documents on a soft keyboard is not a real solution. And as an engineer, the idea of doing any real spreadsheet work is an even bigger joke. There is no comparison between a soft keyboard overlaying your screen and a physical 10-key for spreadsheets.

If there was pen input built in, the iPad would be on its way to being able to replace a huge amount of the paper that we use every day, and indeed be a revolutionary product that I could see creating a new way we think about computing in our everyday lives.

But as it stands now, the iPad does not have the capability of being anything more than exactly what apple has made it to be - a 10" iPhone. And there are certainly some nice things about that product. The one thing that interests me is being able to have a better interface for having the web as leisure reading for example.

Posted 1 month ago

By deinfinityx

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I would agree, and to add by using the keyboard attachment or having to lug it around in the end you would be better off with a netbook, which can do all of that and more for $200 less.

Posted 1 month ago

By Dpmt

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Seconded!

Posted 1 month ago

By greedobuck

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Thirded.

I can't think of a single feature this iPad brings to the table that doesn't already exist in any netbook or tablet PC (or iPhone for that matter).

I'd take the Entourage Edge or a Windows 7 netbook/tablet over the iPad any day.

Posted 1 month ago

By Josereyes

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Well it has multi-touch and an interface designed for it, plus the fact that it's a tablet over any netbook out there. Sure it has the same features as the iPhone but the iPhone was a revolutionary device and the devices out there are still trying to catch up. What's important to understand is that the iPad, with its bigger screen and beefier guts has more upside in terms of advanced input along with all the features of the iPhone.

Posted 1 month ago

By coologuy1957

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I love that Steve-O kept saying how "its a dream to type on" and "its so amazing"....

then at the end, almost as a footnote, they were like "oh ya, we got this keyboard dock in case you need to do REAL typing"....

LOL

Posted 1 month ago

By Josereyes

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I think you have very solid points but they're mostly improvements. I mean the Pen input situation is easily fixable and companies like WriteSense have already developed capacitive touchscreen "pens". Writing extensive spreadsheets on this thing would be a huge joke for sure, trust me there's not a week that goes by where I don't write new macros on Excel spreadsheets and that'd be a nightmare on this thing. But do you really think that just because Apple or anybody else hasn't come up with a clever way to do heavy intensive spreadsheet work today using touchscreen interface GUI elements that it won't happen in a year? I mean we haven't even introduced speech or other methods as input possibilities. Then there's the GUI patent Apple was just granted that would pop up a different GUI menu depending on the proximity detection of input. I mean there's so many different possibilities that haven't even been explored yet that could solve all those challenges.

Posted 1 month ago

By deinfinityx

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That is true, but the same could be said that windows 8 will completely revolutionize everything. Until it is usable it better off not existing. Windows mobile 7 could very well be the best easiest most intuitive os out there basing that off the Zune HD hardware but its not out so i can't say thats really how its going to be.

Posted 1 month ago

By Josereyes

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To say it's not usable is quite a stretch. The device is aimed to be a digital consumption device and it's great at it and it has much upside on the input side, I mean Windows 1.0 had what? a calculator, a calendar and a clock?, you couldn't do any real work on it - but that didn't mean it shouldn't have existed. My overall point is that today, the device is a media consumption device with upside on the high-end with roots in place for input, and possibly advanced input (such as spreadsheet work and more), and the sky is the limit from here. Apple took the dive that nobody else wanted to take, they set the price, the market and introduced the 1.0 product, let's give them and devs a chance to take it to its later and greater versions.

Posted 1 month ago

By deinfinityx

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I agree I am just saying its not limited to apple or the ipad, the Hp tablet could become the defacto standard for tablet device, they already are one of the stronger tablet makers in the us look at the TM2. Point being none of us know what the future is going to hold, but this is a good start to the tablet standard although probably won't end up being the standard.

Posted 1 month ago

By greedobuck

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I agree. There's no doubt this iPad will spark interest in the tablet form factor. I've already seen news reports and articles marvelling at Apple's new 'invention' [sic]. The mainstream doesn't know that tablets have been around for a decade and that the iPad is really just a stripped down tablet (or oversized iPod Touch).

Posted 1 month ago

By coologuy1957

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the only things created for this product were some new apps - the new york times and mlb ones and the book store. apple saw their kindle reader being used on content they didn't provide and saw new potential. thats basically it....

Posted 1 month ago

By dsjr2006

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There is nothing preventing 3rd party devs from making apps that will work with a capacitive pen......

Posted 1 month ago

By Yadda3x

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The current capacitive pens (for iPhone) are more like writing/drawing with a piece of chalk or rounded off crayon. It takes some adjustment to put it mildly. I heard they improved the touch recognition, so maybe a finer tip is now possible.

Posted 1 month ago

By phill360

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I've noticed that people have been calling this a 1.0 device but is it really? Its really just big a iPhone so there have already been 3 versions of this device only smaller. So i don't understand why people keep up with excuses for what is missing, Apple has heard what the iPhone users really want from the iPad and iPhone yet they continue to ignore the real problems. The iPad should have had Multitasking, GPS, Widgets, USB, SD Slot, HDMI and 2 camera's. Apple have given us half baked products in the past and we just excepted it but this of all products is the most half baked product of them all.

But even with all its flaws i still may get one after all i love my gadgets and can see that there potential just not totally sure what it is

Posted 1 month ago

By gueorgi

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Phill, I agree that iPad is missing those extra functionalities that you have listed in your post. But let me give you an example from the world of sport.

There was this Russian guy Bubka who set at least 7 world records in height jumping. When he set his first record it was higher than anyone else, but you could see on the footage that he jumped 10 cm higher. But if he did, he would have only made one world record. So he chose to raise the bar 1 cm every at a time. And he made 7 times more money.

Same thing with Apple. This is a common marketing strategy to make a product and then keep adding those small little things that you've mentioned. This way they can keep the product live for longer.

So it's just business. What would Apple have to do next year if iPad had all these things from the beginning? As a user you shouldn't care, but if you understand why, and relax, then you might just find in iPad what will make your life easier or funnier or whatever.

Posted 1 month ago

By phill360

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I understand were you are coming from but this device is coming with less than the minimum, If it only had multi tasking that would have been a big step in the right direction to show the world this a serious computing device and if they are scared of making it over complicated then make it opt in so it only gets turned on by people who want it.
But what about people who thought this would be great for my parents a very simple device they could you and they could use it for Skype calls to see there grand kids, but hold on i cant do it.
They are trying to get the most money out of us but if these 2 items where in there they would sell twice as many day one.

Posted 1 month ago

By mjh937

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During the announcement yesterday I kept looking at the calendar to make sure it was not April 1. This thing is just a big iPod Touch. I think Apple is going to prove once again that no one wants a tablet computer. They are too much of a compromise. They are too big to be truly portable and too small to be truly useful. I will keep my iPhone and laptop and be happier. I was expecting something innovative and interesting. Unfortunately this is neither.

The other huge problem will be keeping it clean. It is enough of a pain cleaning fingerprints off my iPhone. I do not want to have to keep cleaning a 9" screen every few minutes.

Posted 1 month ago

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